Matt asked me what the dative case was. I then rattled on about throwing balls at dogs, giving small boys gifts, two-way prepositions, dative prepositions, accusative prepositions, intangible verbs, case, valency, and somehow I got on the subject of vestigial weak nouns in German before I made him diagram sentences and parse individual words.
It's not that I'm a prescriptivist (you only have to look at my own grammar to see that), but there can be something beautiful about grammar. Like math, it can neatly explain everything and tidy everything up (even if that means sweeping things under the rug). That's the appeal of Latin, there aren't any native speakers screwing it up, using the dative as the genitive, the dative as the nominative, the dative as the accusative (why do rural Germans love the dative?). You can read Cicero in perfect confidence that he will make complete grammatical sense, and any incomprehensibility is due to you (the reader) and your lack of grammar.
When I was taking Latin, I started giving grammatical speeches to my German students and made them parse verbs. They did not appreciate the grammar, even after I explained that grammar was the only way to catch up with the native speakers.
So I suppose it is inevitable that Matt asked me shortly after our discussion on the dative if I liked this particular scene from a particular British parody by that particular comedy troupe who loves our American marches. I will admit to sympathizing with the Roman and Brian:
It's late at night. Brian has just finished painting his variety of "Romans, go home" in Latin, when a Roman centurion arrives with his men.
Centurion: What is this then? Romanes eunt domus, "People called Romanes they go the house"?
Brian It-it says, "Romans, go home"!
Centurion: No, it doesn't! What's Latin for "Roman"? [grabs Brian's ear] Come on, come on!
Brian: Romanus!
Centurion: Goes like?
Brian: Annus!
Centurion: Vocative plural of annus is...?
Brian: Anni?
Centurion: [writes] Romani. And eunt? What is eunt?
Brian: "Go"! Let-
Centurion: Conjugate the verb "to go".
Brian: Ire; eo, is, it, imus, itis, eunt!
Centurion: So eunt is...?
Brian: Third person plural, present indicative. "They go!"
Centurion: But "Romans, go home" is an order, so you must use the...?
Brian: The... imperative!
Centurion: Which is...?
Brian: I!
Centurion: [twisting Brian's ear] How many Romans?
Brian: [yelling] I.. Plural, plural! Ite, ite!
Centurion: [writing] Ite. Domus? Nominative? But "go home", it is motion towards, isn't it, boy?
Brian: Dative, sir!
[The centurion promptly draws his swords and presses it against Brian's throat. Brian yells:]
No, not dative! Not the dative, sir! No! The... accusative, accusative! Domum, sir, ad domum!
Centurion: Except that domus takes the...?
Brian: The locative, sir!
Centurion: Which is?
Brian: Domum!
Centurion: [writing] Domum... -um [sheathing his sword] Understand?
[Brian nods eagerly]
Now, write it out a hundred times!
Brian: Yes, sir, thank you, sir! Hail Caesar!
Centurion: Hail Caesar. If it's not done by sunrise, I'll cut your balls off!
Brian: Oh, thank you, sir. Thank you, sir. Hail Caesar and everything, sir!
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Mrs. S via Uncle Ed captured by Kass
Why Invite Death?
Mrs. S via Uncle Ed captured by Kass
Quote
Soft the drowsy hours are creeping,
Hill and vale in slumber sleeping,
I my loved ones' watch am keeping,
All through the night.
Hill and vale in slumber sleeping,
I my loved ones' watch am keeping,
All through the night.
About Me
A Selection From Our Library So Far
On My Nightstand
my currently-reading shelf:
Family and other animals
Friend or Foe?
- 131
- Aleatha (new)
- Aleatha (old)
- Annfred
- Ashley
- Baron Ambrosius Von Mundschenck
- Bluegrass Thunder!
- Boardmans
- Emily
- Greens
- Kelli
- Lora
- Lu&Moo
- Lu's Food Storage
- MA
- Maria
- Oriana
- Rachel
- RoseE
- Samuel
- Schmath
- Schmath Knits
- Schmath's Precocious Children
- Shaun
- Shawna
- Thora
- Thora's Cooking
- Veiltender
- Viola Nut
- Wheelers
6 comments:
I love it! Papa
Latin the language is good, but what I hate are modern grammarian imposing artificial subdivisions onto Latin grammar. What I am referring to is the forty-plus kinds of ablatives; ablatives of means, etc, etc (to tell you the truth, I don't remember them at all). And I don't remember them because I hate them. And I never could get them right when I was called to in class; I tried inventing my own kinds of ablatives, that I felt fit the situation very well, but apparently only official grammarians can do this, so I still got in trouble. Even if they did accurately describe what the ablative was doing in that situation, which I thought was the whole point of sub dividing the ablative.
Anyway, enough traumatic memories.
I loved the scene you described; so much I even repeated it to Avram line by line that night.
Thora
Good for Grammar.
The study of a language drastically improves the understanding of ones own language and allows improvement in both tongues.
I sorrow for the modern American who feels that learning a language is not worth the time. Quoting, "If they are going to come here why don't they learn English." This of course they do not do when traveling abroad making them abhorrent tourist who tend to yell very loudly in English to try and get their point across.
Ahhh, that Latin got the language nerd in me very excited. Etymologists unite!
I dearly love grammar. And Latin is such a good language for discussing grammar, because your dear husband often used to point out to me, "Even Caesar obeys the grammarians." Rome is great.
Of course, not all dead languages are quite as regular as Latin. There may not be any live Germans in the Bible messing with cases (not that Biblical Hebrew has any cases any more, expect for a vestigal locative, and perhaps a nominative), but there are plenty of prophets going around doing terribly illogical things to the language. And then there is Job. Reading Job is sort of like teaching someone English using T. S. Elliot.
Once, the Rumach sisters (forgive my spelling) asked if I was a prescriptivist or a descriptivist. I wasn't sure how to answer, since the question is ridiculous in a language like Hebrew. Caesar may obey the grammarians, but the prophets don't. And don't get me started on God's grammar! Weingreen aside, almost Hebrew grammarians are descriptivist, because the language is so wacky it is hard to be anything else. I mean come on, the language has only two tenses, and uses them for everything.
But I dearly love grammar. And there is a beauty in the careful regularity of Latin. SPQR and all that jazz.
-ARS.
Ummm.... I think I may be at the wrong blog. Thees iznt the "I Kant Rede, Right, Or Spele Mi Weigh Out Ov A Paper Bag Clube" iz it?
As a random fact, did you all know that psychology majors have some of the worst GRE scores of all majors? I believe the hard sciences actually have better average verbal scores than the social sciences do. Cool, eh?
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